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 Traditional Chinese Martial Arts
 Lion Dance
 Hoi Gong and Tradition
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SleepingDragon


78 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2006 :  04:43:15  Show Profile  Visit SleepingDragon's Homepage Send SleepingDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
On another forum there is a heated, but amiable discussion regarding
hoi gong and tradition-so if you like to argue for tradition or contemporary check it out.

You must be logged in to see this link.

Gold Horse Dragon



Canada
133 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2006 :  10:25:16  Show Profile  Visit Gold Horse Dragon's Homepage Send Gold Horse Dragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey SD!
As you know...Hoi Gong brings the Spirit of the Lion down from Heaven to inhabit the body of the Lion. Without that, the Lion is only paper, cloth and paint...and so in a traditional sense (to bring good luck and dispel evil) it would be pointless to use a Lion that has not been through Hoi Gong and pointless to perform. Contemporary LD is like contemporary wushu ie. it is a sport and so, I guess they do not put the Lion through Hoi Gong, but imo, if the dancers want to keep themselves more safe and bring luck to their performance...do Hoi Gong.

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SleepingDragon



78 Posts

Posted - 06/11/2006 :  05:50:16  Show Profile  Visit SleepingDragon's Homepage Send SleepingDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Did you read their posts? What did you think on what was said? I think they are from the same pack/ circle at least the ones from the contemporary ones. I understand some of their points, I like the contemporary, but I enjoy the traditional, roots and symbolism, its what makes it make Chinese Lion Dance. I guess contemporary is a good word for the young generation-as they have contemp for the old ways and guys like us? HAHAHA- Just like when we were young and rebelious once.
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Gold Horse Dragon



Canada
133 Posts

Posted - 06/11/2006 :  18:58:28  Show Profile  Visit Gold Horse Dragon's Homepage Send Gold Horse Dragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Contemp for the old ways and guys...that was a good one SD!

Read some, skimmed others...one whack of a lot of posts. Most seemed to agree with the custom of HG, while others were okay to let it go in certain circumstances. The posts seemed to be more about religion vs religion and LD to make money. I view HG and the ways of properly doing the dance more as 'custom' rather than religion...as taoists and Buddhism is more of a philosophy to me than a religion such as Catholic, Protestant etc. However, I do understand how they could also be considered a religion. I do not prescribe to the rooster blood, but to cinnabar (perfectly safe to handle as long as one does not do so for extended periods of time or inhale it). As far as money goes...LD is a poor way to make it and one would never be able to make a living from it. The money from a performance is just barely enough to keep up with the new equipment, new lions, rent and meals for the dancers.

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SleepingDragon



78 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2006 :  08:14:06  Show Profile  Visit SleepingDragon's Homepage Send SleepingDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
BTW, your Sifu is also a Taoist priest if I recall? Did you ever learn about doing the Ba Gua puzzles? I am trying to gather data on different puzzles and how people do them even the most common ones like the snake, what they were told it meant (see the post on lion dance puzzles) then put it on my web for those who wish to know. Because a lot of the store owners don't do too much anymore because many don't know how.

Anyway, I know in some circles with the Ba Gua, they say you must calculate the persons Gua by knowing his birthday including the hour a person is born. From this I know how to figure out the Life gate and death gate and all. I also know you start at the life gate and avoid the death gate, but if you don't mind sharing, for lion dancing which would be the order of the gates would the lion follow there after? You can just e-mail or pm if you don't wish to post it here. I also realize there set ones based on Hung Mun.

Also in the Lion Dance Puzzles posts we were talking about Zhang Fei at Zhang Ban are you familiar with that? How about The 8 Immortals Cross the Sea? Hope you can contribute to it.

Anyway take care, always nice to hear from you.

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Gold Horse Dragon



Canada
133 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2006 :  09:45:18  Show Profile  Visit Gold Horse Dragon's Homepage Send Gold Horse Dragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi SD
My Sifu is not a Taoist Priest. Not too familiar with the Bagua puzzle. Sorry I am unable to provide more info.
All the Best to you!

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siu lum



89 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2006 :  17:40:07  Show Profile Send siu lum a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gold Horse Dragon

Hey SD!
As you know...Hoi Gong brings the Spirit of the Lion down from Heaven to inhabit the body of the Lion. Without that, the Lion is only paper, cloth and paint...and so in a traditional sense (to bring good luck and dispel evil) it would be pointless to use a Lion that has not been through Hoi Gong and pointless to perform. Contemporary LD is like contemporary wushu ie. it is a sport and so, I guess they do not put the Lion through Hoi Gong, but imo, if the dancers want to keep themselves more safe and bring luck to their performance...do Hoi Gong.



I totaly agree with GHD. If you are going out to perform lion dance for restaraunts, kwoons, etc.; then you must do Hoi Gong. Without this, you are not giving true blessing to them. All of the seriuos restaraunt owners want all the registers blessed, kitchens, the roasted pig in the kitchen, sun & moon dance, etc. Without the Hoi Gong, you are deceiving the people, and not truely blessing their business; and may aso bring bad luck to yourself, and your kwoon. We always do Hoi Gong to all our lions, its a must. Its a ceremony we always look forward too.
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