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 Lion Dance Puzzles
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SleepingDragon


78 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2006 :  12:08:14  Show Profile  Visit SleepingDragon's Homepage Send SleepingDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok, everytime I do this everyone either seems to run and hide or maybe treats it more like ancient chinese secrets than their kung fu.

Since Chinese New Years what kind of Chiang/chang/cheng have you done/seen, not just this new years but previous. Come on give us someting, whether others have seen it or not. And what you told it meant (ie. what do snake or crabs represent). Maybe even present one for us (of course it has to follow the rules).

So as not to be a hypocrite here's one that I'll present. Before you is Two Chinese Coins side by side (horizontal or vertical doesn't matter. You see 5 bats above it. With one being red in color. After that is the greens and li-see.

For you experienced lion dancers there is a theme, but if I do that I think it'll be 2 easy, oh alright-"Hong fu zai dao yan qian" (sorry yogi, I know you speak cantonese so I gotta put it in mandarin to make you think)!

Alright, I fired the first shot, let the fun begin.

Edited by - SleepingDragon on 02/06/2006 13:51:52

Yogi5



USA
34 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2006 :  12:43:41  Show Profile Send Yogi5 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok SleepingDragon,

You got me on this one. As soon as I move to LA, I'm gonna get me a Mandarin-speaking girlfriend (or two).

As for the puzzle, haven't seen it before. Please educate all of us. I know the bats represents the word "Fook" for fortune. And since bats hang upside down, thats why the chinese word "fook" is hung upside down. Since one is red, that would be in Cantonese "Hung Fook" which explains why we use the red color paper. Two coins side by side, not really sure but I will take a stab at it. Coins, of course represents money, so by moving one of the coins, you are opening the door to the red bat? Just guessing.

By the way, my back is aching from all that lion dancing in LA. First time back under the head in about 15 years. (Getting too old for this S**t).
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SleepingDragon



78 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2006 :  14:09:21  Show Profile  Visit SleepingDragon's Homepage Send SleepingDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yogi, when do you plan on moving to LA? A Mandarin speaking girlfriend? Well I'm a slut so I'll take any leftovers as long as I don't have to put a bag over their head (hope I didn't offend our female sisters).

Won't give the answers right away, this'll give you an excuse to get your mandarin girlfiend to go to your place and help you translate this. Then maybe the bats will turn into magpies hahaha! Then before you know it you'll have 5 baby lions running around!

As for aching-I guess you'll be forced to use the new malaysian/singapore style heads to keep lion dancing.

Anyway, so what did you see in LA? Anything interesting as far as Lion Dancing? Hope you can access pics and share with everyone. After next week I'll make a montage of pics of events in Hawaii.

By the way you reminded me, forgot a word, the phrase has been modified.

Edited by - SleepingDragon on 02/06/2006 14:22:27
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Yogi5



USA
34 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2006 :  15:04:35  Show Profile Send Yogi5 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok, don't want this thread to change. I will email you tonight about my aches and pains, and photos. Please post the modified phrase.
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SleepingDragon



78 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2006 :  16:42:21  Show Profile  Visit SleepingDragon's Homepage Send SleepingDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Yogi5

Ok, don't want this thread to change. I will email you tonight about my aches and pains, and photos. Please post the modified phrase.


"Hong fu zai dao yan qian"

quote:
Originally posted by Yogi5

I know the bats represents the word "Fook" for fortune.


Fuk/fook/fu-good fortune/luck (correct)

quote:
Originally posted by Yogi5
And since bats hang upside down, thats why the chinese word "fook" is hung upside down.


Close but not quite.

quote:
Originally posted by Yogi5
Since one is red, that would be in Cantonese "Hung Fook" which explains why we use the red color paper.


Wrong line of thought on the color of red.

quote:
Originally posted by Yogi5
Two coins side by side, not really sure but I will take a stab at it. Coins, of course represents money, so by moving one of the coins, you are opening the door to the red bat? Just guessing.



Wrong line of thought-hint-everything is in the theme, think homonyms (words that sound a like). If you have a translator nows the time to use them. Hey Ten Tigers, don't you have a chinese speaking wife?
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SleepingDragon



78 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2006 :  12:00:39  Show Profile  Visit SleepingDragon's Homepage Send SleepingDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok-I'll give in and give another hint since Yogi is the only one willing to come out and play.
I'll translate it to Cantonese Hung Fuk Dou Joi Chin Ngaan. What? You guys didn't think the hint was going to be that easy did you? : )
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fankungfu



15 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2006 :  13:36:53  Show Profile Send fankungfu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Excellent post, would love to hear more about puzzles etc for Lion dance,

I only know a couple.
Chat Sing Bune Yuet - 7* around the moon and a couple of different things to do with oranges.

Drinking from bowels, lion head uses a small towel worn around the neck to soak up all the water and pass it back to the person in tail.

If lots of drinks are put out for the lion i.e rice wine or cans of beer, heard about one Lion team where the person in the head drank his way through them all as opposed to passing each drink around to people at venue...talk about drunk lion or what :-)

Then there is the one with chop sticks and arranging them in different characters.

The hardest one I heard about is doing the Ba Gau with chopsticks and having to perform a different puzzel at each gate/door of the ba gau to pass through

Openess and sharing can only raise the stanard
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SleepingDragon



78 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2006 :  16:46:43  Show Profile  Visit SleepingDragon's Homepage Send SleepingDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Fankungfu,

Don't just tell us the name of the puzzle tell how you played it, it'll benefit the newcomers and for some of old timers we can compare how/if it differs from ours. Although there certain rules and guidelines some aspects may differ because village or provincial differences.

Hey Yogi, just realized you said your birthday is this month and that you're turning 40? No wonder I get along with you-mine is also this month plus I'm a Tiger. You're a horse if I recall, always running around from place to place like a wild stallion.

Want any more hints?

Com'on everybody come out and play the puzzle or give us yours. Don't make me mad and have to call Zhang Fei with iron horns and all out to bust you up. : )
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southernfist



USA
58 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2006 :  02:15:43  Show Profile  Visit southernfist's Homepage Send southernfist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How I play 7 Stars around the moon.

Bow. High walk, Low Walk, Chut Sing, then circle the puzzle once left side then Right side. Chut Sing, Being curious pawing my way to the oranges. Chut Sing.
High Walk ,Low walk, begin with the 1stleft side orange closest to me. Break it into a four pieces. then HW,LW go to the 1st right side orange closest to me. Break it into 4 pieces. Chut sing then left /right/left/right. then in front of the green last orange break into four pices. walk around the lettuce (moon) be curious then chut sing. HW,LW, Eat the lettuce throw to left right and middle. clean paws prance around chut sing then Bow.



Southern Fist
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fankungfu



15 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2006 :  14:10:42  Show Profile Send fankungfu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My Chat Sing is almost the same as Sleeping dragon, except, when we start with the oranges, we take 1st on the left then every other one then go back round again taking remainder one by one till we finish with the last orange which should be in front of the VIP, break it and give it to the the vip or vip's on the mouth of the lion followed by a handshake, then onto rest of lion dance and close
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SleepingDragon



78 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2006 :  16:23:18  Show Profile  Visit SleepingDragon's Homepage Send SleepingDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is good people sharing the way they do it. Could the 2 of you also share why you do it that way, meaning what you were told it meant by going every other orange etc.

BTW-here's another hint for the puzzle I presented, the theme in english is "Vast Luck/Good Fortune Arrives Before Your Eyes." Anyone care to take a stab now as to how to solve the puzzle? Believe me its real easy. If I tell you I'm sure you are going to say what!!? Is that it? Come on lion dancers, come out and plaaaayyy!
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southernfist



USA
58 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2006 :  02:21:29  Show Profile  Visit southernfist's Homepage Send southernfist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
SD Hing-dai:
First of all As for your Puzzle I was never taught that one so forgive my lack of answers.

Second, My First Hung Ga teacher (Yee Chi Wai)Taught us the 7 Stars around the moon in that pattern. As for why he taught it that way. I will be honest I never asked just mimic the moves as most in the school did.
He mentioned you always begin on the Left then right. As for the other oranges it must be done in that manner left/right. as for the splitting or parting them in 4 pieces it must exhibit like the star shines in the sky. the center top orange is save last . as for the Lettuce or moon it has to be dispersed to give Luck to the restaurant or event.

I never asked much since My Si-hings just told me listen and learn by seeing Sifu do it.

So, educate me in the meaning. I am willing to learn.

Southern Fist
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fankungfu



15 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2006 :  11:35:57  Show Profile Send fankungfu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm with sleeping dragon here, just do it the way I was told to. Sorry can't help any further on that one
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SleepingDragon



78 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2006 :  12:12:15  Show Profile  Visit SleepingDragon's Homepage Send SleepingDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by fankungfu

I'm with sleeping dragon here, just do it the way I was told to. Sorry can't help any further on that one



That's a shame, if your sifu is still alive, you should ask before its to late. I regret not talking to mine more, in particular the Lau ga he taught, now I have to rely on others.

BTW FANKUNGFU, I think you mean southernfist and not me (SleepingDragon) in the above and previous post you made.

Edited by - SleepingDragon on 02/09/2006 12:57:38
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SleepingDragon



78 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2006 :  12:56:29  Show Profile  Visit SleepingDragon's Homepage Send SleepingDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by southernfist

SD Hing-dai:
First of all As for your Puzzle I was never taught that one so forgive my lack of answers.


Nothing to forgive, we are all here to learn, including me. As for the puzzle above, I have never seen it done myself. I tossed it out there to make people think. In Hawaii, one of the older merchants would come out with all kinds of puzzles every year, when a friend asked where he got all these ideas, he said the Chinese calendars and li-see have all kinds of Chinese proverbs.

So technically you you could go to a chinatown store and look at their couplets and with an understanding of Chinese symbolism and word plays known as puns/homonyms you can make these puzzles. These are in essense word puzzles.

The puzzle I presented, the actual proverb is "Good Fortune Before Your Eyes." I added vast and arrive to make it a little harder for guys like yogi5.

quote:
Originally posted by southernfist
He mentioned you always begin on the Left then right. As for the other oranges it must be done in that manner left/right. as for the splitting or parting them in 4 pieces it must exhibit like the star shines in the sky. the center top orange is save last . as for the Lettuce or moon it has to be dispersed to give Luck to the restaurant or event.


When you say you split them apart, do mean the peel or the orange itself? Pulling the peel only back into four sections, I was told was to symbolize the lotus? But as I said it depends on what you are trying to convey, their are many variations, including what you use for the stars.

As for the lettuce there are 3 teachings. The term choi cheng/cai qing, choi means to pick, grab, or catch while the cheng is the greens (which represent the qing/manchus). When the lion spits it out it represents spitting or throwing out the ching/manchus out of china. Now this where it gets confusing if you are trying to teach others. Cai/Choi (similar pronounciation different character) means wealth, but yet another Cai/Choi character represents vegetable. So the symbolism of spitting the greens at the stores door, also is like representing wishing wealth coming into his store/business.

Farmers use to hang lettuce above their doors, in part to attract wealth, but also because they probably couldn't afford the other fancy symbolisms.

quote:
Originally posted by southernfist
I never asked much since My Si-hings just told me listen and learn by seeing Sifu do it.



No disrespect to your older brothers, but probably they didn't know why either. In that case, the art will slowly disappear.

I cannot tell you why you went left then right. I learned it the way
fankungfu did his, every other. Yours is not wrong just different, just like doing the snake, their are so many variations, a lot depending what you are trying to convey. For the most part people in NY do it really old style from what I gather.
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SleepingDragon



78 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2006 :  16:53:25  Show Profile  Visit SleepingDragon's Homepage Send SleepingDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay before everybody loses interest, here is the answer:

Circle the puzzle and investigate each piece involved in the puzzle. Take the red bat and place it between you and the Chinese coins upside down. It would be good if there were a red ribbon attaching the two coins (as this is a symbol of wealth) in which you could then tie the bat and present to the owner. The lion would then play the cheng. Some of you may be saying what? Thatís it? I donít get it?!

The other bats are just distractions to confuse the lion, some may have thought since there were 5 bats, it symbolized the 5 five blessings. Remember though. The key is in the theme of the puzzle.

Hong/Hung=red, but a homonym of hong/hung is Vast, thus Red=Vast
Fu/Fuk=bat, a homonym of fu/fuk is Good Fortune, thus Bat=Good Fortune
Dao/Dou=Upside down=Arrive/arrival
Zai/Joi=twice (no homonym straight up)
Qian/Chin=currency/coins=In Front/Before
Yan/Ngaan=Eye/Eyelet/Hole (This refers to the hole in the middle of a Chinese coin.)

Thus you get the proverb Vast Good Fortune/Luck Arrives Before Your Eyes.

I hope somebody else will continue the thread. Yogi, why donít you tell people about
the cheng with the fish hanging or tell LionDancer888 to come on board and talk about it. In another forum he mentioned it was followed by the 7 stars and the moon.
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