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 All about Tien Shan Pai
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Alerten22


USA
104 Posts

Posted - 05/30/2006 :  23:09:02  Show Profile  Send Alerten22 a Yahoo! Message Send Alerten22 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Tien Shan Pai is the Northern Chinese Martial Art I study in.

Tien Shan Pai name translates to Celestial Mountain System (Tien = Celestial, Shan = Mountain, Pai = System) Tien Shan Pai name is sometimes also translated into Heaven Mountain System. This system is really is today considered a system although we haven't actually been unable to properly trace the lineage. Even though what i personally would discribe the system as having a sort of mysterious veil that hasn't been oncovered. It still holds, very well together, the traditional values of the martial arts.

I find Tien Shan Pai to be odd in the fact that it is a martial art that has a combination of different martial arts within it. The understood main five systems within Tien Shan Pai system are Northern Style kung-fu, Bai Chi Chuan, Tai Chi Chuan, Hsing Yi and Ba gua. (Northern Style kung-ku means, in this case, that it has many different variety of styles that are slightly incorperated from all over Northern China. They are all are northern kung fu styles)

This is one of the few systems that actually teach multipule martial arts within the system that has never actually tailored movements differently within its this system. So in other words someone learned many different systems very proficiantly. Then Made exercises and drills by combineding some techniques from all the systems to make it easier to learn. (like stepping blocks). The forms themselfs were never changed in anyway. This system is considered a eclectic system.

Tien Shan Pai has short and long range techniques for many different situations. Ths style includes many high kicks and low sweeps along with great whole body-eye cordination. Within this system teaches stremely good balance.

It is considered to be very similar if not it being a long fist style.

Its power is generated through the whole body to every intented stike of any sort. This system includes many forms, weapon forms, hand forms, two-person hand forms. two-person weapon forms.

There are many different principles within this system. the theory of Yin and Yang. With keeping Yin and Yang always in mind, stems the use of Softness and Hardness within this system. (not to be mistaken for the same as internal and external, but similar). Even though this system is primary a long armed system, it teaches and has movements of long arm and short arm techniques. Then the principles get more complicated. It uses the principles of Feint strike and the then the considered to be testing strike, which measures the ability of the opponents skill, although it is a pertty divistating strike. The last strike is the ending strike once the opponents ability of his skill has been measured totally ending the fight. Other principles include Angular Strikes to evade and strike, and Circular Movement to help generate power and become more fluid.

I am tuaght by my teachers Master Norman Smith and Jamal El (Master Norman Smith's best student). Master Norman Smith was taught Tien Shan Pai by Willy Lin, who was directly taught by GrandMaster Wang Jyue Jen.

I have been a student for a little more then two and a half years in Tien Shan Pai. I wouldn't even say that i have learned one forth of the system yet. I was told by GrandMaster Norman Smith as he was driving me home one day, that to really be able to be a instructor, or at a instructor level you need to learn, Bai Gua, Xing I, and Tai Chi all separately as i believe my instructors did. (at least the systems themselfs)


I wanted to share a little bit about my martial art. Get peoples opinions and answer peoples questions about this martial art. I was hoping that people have heard of this martial art. has some comments or something to say about it. along with hopfully finding other practitioners of this art, or people that know practitioners of this style of Nortern CMA

The Rigid person is a disciple of death; The soft, supple, and delicate are lovers of life. -Lao Tzu

Edited by - Alerten22 on 05/30/2006 23:12:28

3 Circle Method



Australia
1539 Posts

Posted - 05/30/2006 :  23:30:36  Show Profile  Visit 3 Circle Method's Homepage  Click to see 3 Circle Method's MSN Messenger address Send 3 Circle Method a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the read, yopu said:"The forms themselfs were never changed in anyway." But you dont know the lineage or anything so how can you say its the original arts of those Pai's?

Many teachers teach more then one art these days, look at Wing Lam lol?

Garry
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Alerten22



USA
104 Posts

Posted - 05/30/2006 :  23:54:17  Show Profile  Send Alerten22 a Yahoo! Message Send Alerten22 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, i guess i didn't say it properly or didn't discribe.
According to how Wang Jyue Jen was taught it. it has never been changed. (supposidly, not 100% accurate, although more like 95% maybe a little less. But my teachers are some of the better teachers of the art. I won't say there the best, although i will say that they are in comparison better then others i have seen. it just shows the technique is off and main principles aren't being used properly) First and formost my teachers even though there great at forms THEY ARE REAL FIGHTERS! where the real art of Kung Fu i believe came from. (the art of killing).

Actually i decided to give everyone more details.
The GrandMaster Chen Pan Ling is the GrandMaster of the Orthedox Xing Yi. (one out of three GrandMasters of the time in Xing Yi, they all had some differences in them, some missing some small things some had the other things but the orthedox one had what was considered to be all of it, or the complete one and teaches the philosophy, principles of the art. The others don't) He was what was considered i believe to be the best or at the top CMA teacher in the Chaing's army for the Republic of China(the miliarty, they had actual war experience). Chen Pan Ling also taught Bai Gua and Tai Chi, his Tai Chi i believe is still known today, and is very popular i believe. Chen Pan Ling Tai Chi was excellent also along with his Xing Yi from what i understand. I know Wang Jyue Jen was taught by Chen Pan Ling Xing Yi (abut Wang Learning Tai Chi from Chen Pan Ling and bai Gua, i will have to ask my teachers. although i don't believe he is known for his bai gua even though he was good. i haven't heard anything about him being the greatest of his day in bai gua.) I believe that Chen Pan Ling has been traced back all the way back. Although i've just starting my Xing Yi lessions so i know much less about it)

please correct me if i made any mistakes.

The Rigid person is a disciple of death; The soft, supple, and delicate are lovers of life. -Lao Tzu

Edited by - Alerten22 on 05/31/2006 07:14:20
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3 Circle Method



Australia
1539 Posts

Posted - 05/30/2006 :  23:58:40  Show Profile  Visit 3 Circle Method's Homepage  Click to see 3 Circle Method's MSN Messenger address Send 3 Circle Method a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Awesome dude, who are your sifu's? I just looked at the website very nice, you guys are from Wu Tai Shan (Ng Tai San)? My Wun Yuen came from Ng Toi San if its te same place?

regards
Garry

Edited by - 3 Circle Method on 05/31/2006 00:50:53
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Alerten22



USA
104 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2006 :  07:21:45  Show Profile  Send Alerten22 a Yahoo! Message Send Alerten22 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've been taught by Sifu Billy Williams in the past although not very often. Recently Sifu Eric Richardson has been teaching in the class i attend, (along with Master Norman Smith, and Sifu Jamal El) although always i've learned directly from Sifu Jamal El. (and private classes once a week with him) Sifu Jamal El, is my primary teacher. I have often times been taught by Master Norman Smith too. Some of the advanced guys there, that have been doing Tien Shan Pai there for over 5 years like (they are on the Assistant Instructors page) Brian Korty has amazing skills and has taught me, although he might not be at the same level as the teachers. i never really get to see my teachers highest abilities although his i do, and it is really impressive, along with Don Reynolds. (Brain Korty has been there for about 8 years)

In Sifu Jamal El bio, it doesn't go into more detail about the other things he knows or other winnings he has had. (this is because he doesn't like the contriversy, and rather stay humble) Although i thought i would add that in because the other teachers bio's seem much better when you look at them.

BTW, i change the post i posted not this one... but the one before this post, and added some good details.

The Rigid person is a disciple of death; The soft, supple, and delicate are lovers of life. -Lao Tzu

Edited by - Alerten22 on 05/31/2006 07:28:08
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Alerten22



USA
104 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2006 :  07:30:59  Show Profile  Send Alerten22 a Yahoo! Message Send Alerten22 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 3 Circle Method

Awesome dude, who are your sifu's? I just looked at the website very nice, you guys are from Wu Tai Shan (Ng Tai San)? My Wun Yuen came from Ng Toi San if its te same place?

regards
Garry



No, at least not to my knowledge. There is a mountain in China called Tien Shan... the name was based off of that. Although technicially we don't exactly know if thats where it came from.

The Rigid person is a disciple of death; The soft, supple, and delicate are lovers of life. -Lao Tzu
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fankungfu



15 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2006 :  09:18:53  Show Profile Send fankungfu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Chen Pan Ling of Taiwan was very good indeed
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