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n/a


11 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2006 :  17:09:49  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Curious, how many practitioners on this forum practice or instruct Northern style (beishi) and Southern style (nanshi)?

dragonclaw



USA
735 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2006 :  12:21:03  Show Profile Send dragonclaw a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And what are some of the similarities/differences you see in them?

Devotion is the duty of the deciple, and right guidance is the burden of the master!!
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n/a



11 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2006 :  17:14:53  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
When you compare Northern style (beishi) and Southern style (nanshi), you must take into account that share the same elements, i.e., da (striking), ti (kicking) na, (seizing) and shuai (throwing-down); however, they possess a subtle difference.

For example, Southern style, stress the notion of bridging (qiao) via the hand/arm (shou), where as Northern style, stress it via the leg (tui).

A misconception of the past, was to categorizes Northern as a kicking style and Southern as striking, i.e., fist, style. However, must Northern set way, i.e., forms (taolu), contain many kicks, and the must popular one is flicking leg (tantui), which is a stable of must Southern style.

Therefore, I personally don’t seem too much difference between both of them; however, you do need to be a bit more flexible in Northern…

Edited by - n/a on 02/02/2006 17:15:29
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southernfist



USA
58 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2006 :  17:52:05  Show Profile  Visit southernfist's Homepage Send southernfist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Northern Styles are more open in technique and balanced.
Southern Styles are usually more closed in and one sided.
Northern can be seen linear while Southern is multidirectional.
Just some answers.

Southern Fist
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David_Jamieson



Canada
89 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2006 :  09:54:37  Show Profile  Visit David_Jamieson's Homepage Send David_Jamieson a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by southernfist

Northern Styles are more open in technique and balanced.
Southern Styles are usually more closed in and one sided.
Northern can be seen linear while Southern is multidirectional.
Just some answers.

Southern Fist




whoa! I gotta disagree.

Northern that I have learned are all right side favoured.
Southern that I have learned repeat every movement in virtually all forms on both sides balancing left and right development along the way.
Northern that I learned does indeed use roads(linear paths) to play out the forms along, but they are not singular in direction and nor are they entirely straight lines. Plenty of circles, spins, chnages in direction as you move through the material.

Some of the southern forms I have learned has very little footwork and ergo have no direction but that which you are facing.

Some of the other forms I have learned are all over the map in re:footwork and directions, but I don't find this any more or any less true with northern.

in summary, each style has it's merit. Be it from teh north, the south or from your uncles basement. Over categorization and pigeonholing of styles is something that is not done' when one has acquired even a little depth of experience with more than one. The more you look in fact, the more similarities you will find.

- If I had two dead rats, I'd give you one - Kliban
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Ngokfei



USA
60 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2006 :  14:07:30  Show Profile Send Ngokfei a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The idea of separating styles was due to the Kuoshu group.

Northern & Southern only describe where the material came from. And lets not get into Internal and External.

In the end all must be learned and practiced. Sure we have a particular emphasis but that should not prejudice any futuer exponenets.

ex: If we follow the catagegory of Northern, then how does styles like Xing Yi, Baji fit in?

This is also why the judging in tournaments is so off. We should go back to when everybody would demonstrate and be judged on their skill but again that wouldn't make any money for the promoters.

peace

eric hargrove
ngokfei@juno.com
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3 Circle Method



Australia
1539 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2006 :  06:36:58  Show Profile  Visit 3 Circle Method's Homepage  Click to see 3 Circle Method's MSN Messenger address Send 3 Circle Method a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This goes back to if you fight like these stupid forms then you will fight one sides, or backwards lol.

Fighting should be the way YOU fight not the friggin forms of northern or southern kung fu, not to mention never take your sifu's words as the truth.

regards
Garry
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Gold Horse Dragon



Canada
133 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2006 :  14:02:27  Show Profile  Visit Gold Horse Dragon's Homepage Send Gold Horse Dragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Techs are taken from the sets and applied in a self-defence situation. If your Sifu can extrapolate the techs out of the sets and apply them...then trust him...if he cannot, then he should not be a Sifu.

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3 Circle Method



Australia
1539 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2006 :  16:58:41  Show Profile  Visit 3 Circle Method's Homepage  Click to see 3 Circle Method's MSN Messenger address Send 3 Circle Method a Private Message  Reply with Quote
GHD,

How does one become a sifu and not know the defense moves of the forms movements? lol Thats what ive been saying too many sifu's learning forms and nothing else!!

You just said it without wanting to say it!

Garry ;)
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southernkungfu



USA
584 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2006 :  17:35:04  Show Profile  Visit southernkungfu's Homepage  Click to see southernkungfu's MSN Messenger address Send southernkungfu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 3 Circle Method

This goes back to if you fight like these stupid forms then you will fight one sides, or backwards lol.

Fighting should be the way YOU fight not the friggin forms of northern or southern kung fu, not to mention never take your sifu's words as the truth.



LOL - dude you are truly stuck in that literal forms thing! Be it northern/southern limiting working one side mainly or both and as an instructor I would assume you are well aware that the forms are a guideline - the textbook if you will from which to extrapulate. The movements and applications vary - the techniques change based on application and you don't turn around and fight like that. Most of us here have already said this and the point is we know...forms are not fighting.

What Eric is saying about the tournament is that instead of breaking down judging by northern and southern systems they should judge based on the execution of the techniques being done.

How that amounts to never taking your Sifu's words as truth? I have no idea. So what do you propose - question everything? You will learn nothing by doing so. For in order to question proper execution and application in a fight one must first learn how to do them properly. So I ask, if you are training with someone and you ask them a question because you question the practicality of the application - your Sifu answers you - you don't trust it - why bother asking? So you just go down the block to the other school and ask them?

Seriously, if you could clarify what you mean by trust that would help a great deal. However, and I'm not even going to ask about your experience because I don't want another episode - but from mine - my Sifu's have always been trustworthy in every aspect. They have always guided me in a direction of growth and knowledge and been upfront with me. In turn I trust and respect them. Does that mean I don't have questions ABSOLUTELY NOT - I have a ton of questions and I ask. Also, as many of us do understand, not every technique works for every person. Humility is a great trait in life. Especially when when learning.

As for forms - you practice techniques, drill them over and over again correct? So what's the difference? Forms do the same thing...drill techniques over and over again and foot work, and stances and have all the benefits and then some of what repetative drilling does. Muscle memory retention works the same in each case.

Oh and on a fighting tip - A person could be the best fighter in the world - doesn't mean he could teach worth a damn. He knows how to fight and what works for HIM - doesn't mean he can show you.

DJCaldwell
Administrator
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3 Circle Method



Australia
1539 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2006 :  18:14:05  Show Profile  Visit 3 Circle Method's Homepage  Click to see 3 Circle Method's MSN Messenger address Send 3 Circle Method a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Have a KIT KAT break DJ, I dont drill for techniques from forms i do chi kung as my form for health, i do pads and spar, grapple for fighting.

Your tip is right just like your sifu teahcing you forms and cant fight so why bother with the last statement?

I trust my sifu's but i question there theories and i go and seek my answers i never say thanks sifu i take it that works for this and that but what if i come back to him and say "HEY, I found a better way for myself to defend or to attack using that same technique that makes my fighting better!" Would he get upset or would he say great mate, you are now thinking like a kung fu man, not a robot like the rest?!

My sifu of YKM said to me "Garry if i teach you everything, You will learn nothing!" You do understand what he meant by that?

Proper breathing, and posture is taught, power also....but then you still need to question if it suites your body and hinderences you cause waht worked for the founder may not work for every person.

Garry
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southernkungfu



USA
584 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2006 :  19:02:47  Show Profile  Visit southernkungfu's Homepage  Click to see southernkungfu's MSN Messenger address Send southernkungfu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 3 Circle Method

Have a KIT KAT break DJ, I dont drill for techniques from forms i do chi kung as my form for health, i do pads and spar, grapple for fighting.


You missed the entire point. Instead of simply reacting to the words as if I'm attacking you - try reading them. Repetative motions, muscle memory retention, endurance training - similar benefits.

quote:
Your tip is right just like your sifu teahcing you forms and cant fight so why bother with the last statement?


1st - read your own words because if you worded this properly it wouldn't read like you just tried to insult my Sifu. I understand what you meant though - just to take the dig on me for losing the match. So 2nd - Ahh...if you really think that because I lost my 2nd SanDa match in the ring means I CAN'T fight then I truly did overestimate my opinion of you. But it's pointless to argue the issue it means nothing over the internet.

quote:
My sifu of YKM said to me "Garry if i teach you everything, You will learn nothing!" You do understand what he meant by that?


No I'm a 32 year old college educated VP and yet...a complete idiot . I've never taught anyone anything and couldn't possibly grasp the concept.

quote:
Proper breathing, and posture is taught, power also....but then you still need to question if it suites your body and hinderences you cause waht worked for the founder may not work for every person.


By George you managed to reitterate my statement. Thanks.

Forget it dude - right now you make discussing things with you very difficult for no reason. You attack on the same point and continue it on every single thread the same thing...forms suck (except my 2 internal) but yet your website says you instruct in external forms as wel...always the best kind of teachers who don't believe what they are selling. When you can converse like a big boy, accept some varying opinions without seeming like they are attacking you, then hopefully we can continue.
[/quote]

DJCaldwell
Administrator
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3 Circle Method



Australia
1539 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2006 :  19:33:57  Show Profile  Visit 3 Circle Method's Homepage  Click to see 3 Circle Method's MSN Messenger address Send 3 Circle Method a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wasnt reacting to anything i was being normal believe that if you like, you are now taking offense when i didnt write a damn thing about your sand da matches etc. I dont give a **** to be honest, now read into that as you wish im not angry buit as you know there is no tones on this forum or facial expressions you are taking it too serious. I didnt mean your sifu i meant sifus in general that teach forms and cant fight or never have be it ring or street. Im not a good fighter so please dont think im saying all this to give myself a rap im not im stating the friggin obvious but if you are blinded by tradition its not my fault at all.

As for my website i wil be tearing it down, are you now atacking me?

Is that all you have?

I am talking normal man, i can talk all day why the forms are not a good method to learn fighting or begin fighting. Most of the techniques will not work against a fighter that isnt in your school or tarins your art. Alot of arts spar and chi sau only with themsleves and therefore dont know whats its like against someone doing different stuff and real agrression which isnt in every gym.

dont take to heart, you are getting ****ty over nothing and im calm here you have taken my words out of proportion again.

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Gold Horse Dragon



Canada
133 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2006 :  23:39:24  Show Profile  Visit Gold Horse Dragon's Homepage Send Gold Horse Dragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 3 Circle Method

GHD,

How does one become a sifu and not know the defense moves of the forms movements? lol Thats what ive been saying too many sifu's learning forms and nothing else!!

You just said it without wanting to say it!

Garry ;)



There are those who make themselves a Sifu and start teaching, that's how a person who 'claims' to be a Sifu is unable to know the defense moves...like I said they should not be a Sifu. That is a title handed down to a disciple. Sifu...one who knows the advanced nature of the sets, can extrapolate the moves to handle any self-defense scenario, knows how to treat injuries, one who knows the philosophy, knows how to build strength and health and more. I do not say anything without wanting to say it Garry. Do you hear only what you want to hear?!

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blackfoot



USA
133 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2006 :  01:16:06  Show Profile Send blackfoot a Private Message  Reply with Quote
not to mention never take your sifu's words as the truth.
posted by 3 Circle Method

and we should take your word as truth, and disregard our own Sifu's......bwaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaaha

I like that one Garry, but faith is the foundation....no faith, then you're a skeptic....and skeptics rarely make any contributitions in this world....I dont think DaVinci was a skeptic.....damn sure Christ wasnt.....John F. Kennedy wasnt a skeptic.....and he helped put a man on the moon....if you're saying dont become a robot, make what your Sifu teaches you, your own, then I agree - but if you're saying doubt your Sifu and his ability, well then......
I have nothing more to say


Ego's grow faster then muscle, and pride develops quicker then skill.
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3 Circle Method



Australia
1539 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2006 :  01:17:46  Show Profile  Visit 3 Circle Method's Homepage  Click to see 3 Circle Method's MSN Messenger address Send 3 Circle Method a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thats my point there is more people claiming this tittle and dont have a clue as well many given that tittle and still no clue. Im one of them!!! :)

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