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pace


Canada
66 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2006 :  16:48:16  Show Profile Send pace a Private Message  Reply with Quote
we all know about slt chi-gong,but there are chum kiu chi-gong too...who know's about it

Kew-Do



USA
920 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2006 :  20:29:05  Show Profile  Visit Kew-Do's Homepage Send Kew-Do a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I was taught variations of the Chi-Gung with all 3 of the hand forms of the Pan Nam system Of Yong Chun / Wing Chun.

"They are all perfect"...
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pace



Canada
66 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2006 :  13:20:37  Show Profile Send pace a Private Message  Reply with Quote
thanks...i'am alright then!
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method man



United Kingdom
283 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2006 :  04:50:15  Show Profile Send method man a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I know about 7 lets call them chi gung type exercises that span the three forms. aditional exercises are normally things that need to be isolated and practiced more outside the form for faster development. Things that need to be practiced to make it possible to perform the forms without injury. Things that are not developed in the form that improve fighting ability.
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pace



Canada
66 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2006 :  19:08:43  Show Profile Send pace a Private Message  Reply with Quote
yes ..add more...it looks like
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method man



United Kingdom
283 Posts

Posted - 12/15/2006 :  04:47:46  Show Profile Send method man a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay first I would like to ditch the 'Chi gung' tag since 'Chi' means energy and 'gung' means work.IMO all movements require and produce energy so Chi gong means everything and nothing without further definition.Also in cantonese the native tougue of Wing Chun it would be 'Hei gong' meaning breath work. Since deep abdominal breathing should be used in all the forms during chi sao and sparring this would make all Wing Chun one very large and complicated hei gong. As I was taught it Wing Chun only uses visualisation in one small part of SLT during the first slow tan sao, in none of the other forms is visualisation needed. Parts that I have seen isolated include the turning double lan sao which is designed to improve yiu ma gong, and the tendon strengthening exercise seen at the begining of Biu jee (however I have seen other WC branches that put this in SLT and CK also). Other Gong exercises I have been taught include a short isometric type set similar in many ways to a lot of gong taught in Hung gar and another to increase grip strength for lap sao and another to increase flexibility and range of movement for elbow strikes. Only the last of these I know is 100% Wing Chun it was passed down to Yip Ching from his farther. My Sigung was formerly of white crane and still uses a lot within his chi sao and free fighting so some of the exercises may be from White crane and not in others WC practice.
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pace



Canada
66 Posts

Posted - 12/15/2006 :  12:36:00  Show Profile Send pace a Private Message  Reply with Quote
maybe....i,ve got all you said... tx.....and in my thinking(just for me)i don't know, but maybe yip ching did not learn alll the stuff of his father..
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method man



United Kingdom
283 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2007 :  04:15:39  Show Profile Send method man a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yip Ching did not used to practice in class with the other students, but used to train with Yip Man at night. Both Yip Chun and Yip Ching were sucessful buisness men and had money, which was important to Yip Man as he was from a wealthy familiy in China but lost a great deal of his wealth to the japanese and then the communists. So while both brothers began to teach much latter than a lot of Yip Man's students both had been practicing Wing Chun from a very early age.
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pace



Canada
66 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2007 :  12:54:14  Show Profile Send pace a Private Message  Reply with Quote
ok i heard they train with some uncle ,i don't know....and i am not doing what my daad was doing....just my thoughts
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method man



United Kingdom
283 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2007 :  05:33:57  Show Profile Send method man a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As it has been relayed to me Yip Ching did intensive training with his farther especially at night and sometimes into the early morning. This was a time that Yip Man did a lot of his supplemental training that he did not teach or train within the kwoon a lot relates to health and maintainance. Yip Ching did modify his Wing Chun especially his Bui jee which employs more power, because of his frame, however he would always show both the origional method his farther taught and his own modifications.
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pace



Canada
66 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2007 :  13:19:21  Show Profile Send pace a Private Message  Reply with Quote
maybe,,i heard he was studiing first and later on he decide to practice wing chun....and why he accept william cheung in his federation......i heard yip man kick him out of his school
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Kew-Do



USA
920 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2007 :  13:10:33  Show Profile  Visit Kew-Do's Homepage Send Kew-Do a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No disrespect intended...I heard that Yip's son's didn't get involved and complete the whole system until after their father's death. I additionally heard from individuals who know them and other well known Sifu, ( Many who I have rolled with), that {Money} was their motivating factor. Because there are a lot of people who place a tremendous emphasis on lineage, they motivated these guys to teach the art so they could claim lieage from the Yip family. I know of 3 Sifu from Yip Ching that attended (ONE) seminar, and because they were already a know Sifu, and payed the $5000.00 dollars, now ( MAGICALLY) are now a Recognized Sifu under one of the Sons.........This is very curious.

This is shared from real people directly to me and not hearsay,......you believe what you want.

Kew-Do

"They are all perfect"...
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method man



United Kingdom
283 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2007 :  10:56:08  Show Profile Send method man a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kew, no the brothers were not involved until after Yip Man's death. Yip Chun spent some time refining his Wing Chun with Leung Ting take from that what you will. Yip Ching was asked to become invovled and teach seminars from some 1st and 2nd generation Wing Chun Sifus quite a while afterwards. Why would these guys want to learn from Yip Ching many had studied with Yip Man himself so lineague wise this does not make sense. Also most of Yip Man's top students were well conected rich buisness men, and he charged them a lot of money to learn his art and be classed as 'top' students. The fact that both brothers charge money for seminars should not come as such a surprise, and the amount of money that some of the other 'top' students payed over the years to Yip Man means they feel their place at the top should be secured. Until a lot of people jump ship some may do it to feel close to the source others because they like the style and the way Wing Chun is done. people have their own reasons it is not black and white and of course the people losing out are going to have a **** about it. My Sigong will still roll with anyone and pull on some gear and spar with anybody despite his age, I have felt his kung fu and my sifu's kung fu and can testify that it is the real deal, as to the politics I tend to keep out of it.
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Kew-Do



USA
920 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2007 :  12:47:56  Show Profile  Visit Kew-Do's Homepage Send Kew-Do a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Method Man, Happy New year.

Honestly, I do not know many well known 1st generation Masters {From what they have told me} who would claim or want to learn from the Sons, no disrespect, just from what they have told me. I have met and my students have rolled with Benny Ming's (Ving Tsun Instructor and Curator for the Ving Tsun Museum) who is under the sons, and Andreas Hoffman,Garrett Gee... they all were very curious where half of their art went, and when we rolled they were very suprised at Eddie Chong's and the schools efficiency at close range trapping.

Especially coming from the Leung Sheung family tree. I have been very fortunate to meet, roll, and free fight many sifu from Leung Sheung to older Sifu when Yip started to cognitively slip and teach differently. Through this exposure and not allowing politics to enter there is a definite ommission of certain parts of the art as in Dummy. I can perform my dummy side by side (Leung Sheung) lineage beside a Yip Ching/Chun....Leung Ting version and by the time I am at 50 on the Dummy, they are complete. I am not saying this lineage is better than that or this system is better than this , I am making a Logical observation and have possed the question since 1979, why so different from the same Instructor (Yip Man).

Going back to my point. There are students that cannot see this or that, but the older instructors from their admission do not view Yips Son's as a strong root to pull from.


I know that you have stated that you have a root to Wong Sheung Leung. His system is very good and favours the Leung Sheung lineage.

We have talked before about this and I think we both agree, regardless of where if it comes from if it has the basis of the system concept, you will make it work for you.

I don't know if you have ever looked over this, I'm listed in this as well....4th gen Yip Man 2nd gen Pan Nam....let me know what you think......

You must be logged in to see this link.

Kew-Do

"They are all perfect"...

Edited by - Kew-Do on 01/15/2007 12:58:31
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pace



Canada
66 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2007 :  14:00:30  Show Profile Send pace a Private Message  Reply with Quote
i heard wong was a friend of bruce lee....and yip man kick him out of his school , because he was doing many fights and trouble down there...
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Kew-Do



USA
920 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2007 :  16:01:49  Show Profile  Visit Kew-Do's Homepage Send Kew-Do a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well I do know that Wong Shun Leung was also known as “Gong Sau Wong”, or “King of Talking with the Hands”, as well well known for his pugical prowess which did not do the art of Wing Chun harm but make it well known in many martial arts circles as "Fast Hands"......"Gangster Fist", and made it the number one sought after MA in Hong Kong in the mid 70s.

As far as your question,....I'm sorry I don't know if this is true or not. Most of the 1st generation Masters I've talked to were on the topic of Wing Chun, application, lineage, trees.

I know it sounds weird but Bruce Lee never entered into the conversation. Some of the discussions that I have had with these Masters, lasted for 7 hours sometimes into the early morning hours.

Kew-Do

"They are all perfect"...
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