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 Wing Chun
 elbows, shoulders, knees and cloths
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method man


United Kingdom
283 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2006 :  05:24:09  Show Profile Send method man a Private Message  Reply with Quote
first off to start with a fave of most Wing Chuner's the elbow, although granted the elbow is a hell of a wepon and requires considerably less conditioning than the hands, what conditioning do you guys do and do you do any supplemental chi-gong etc for force or flexibility. Also the elbow and bong sao complement each other do you use elbows in bong-larp sao drill or in chi sao when doing bong sao. Here is a great use of the elbow if you are caught in a thai clinch and they go for a knee flick the elbow (short ging) on the same side into the thigh just above the knee (centre line) even the craziest of Thai boxers would think twice about another knee.
Shoulder strike I know Wong Shun Leung's guys use the shoulder a lot, how about the rest of you how do you rate it as a wepon and do you have a counter to it.
If you bring up the leg as if to kick but without releasing the lower leg forward ( the kick come out as the leg moves up but if it was blocked by a body etc). then you have the oppertunity to knee rather than moving away or changing angles to get a kicking target do you practice using the knee.
My Wing chun club trains in loose tracksuit pants, T-shirt and normal trainers, we wear mainly what we would wear on the street, Is there any Wing chun guy or gals out there who train in uniforms what do you feel this brings to the club and do you see any drawbacks, for example only going into fighting mode (higher level of arousal) when in the uniform.

Kew-Do



USA
920 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2006 :  08:22:00  Show Profile  Visit Kew-Do's Homepage Send Kew-Do a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Soccer pants, T-Shirt, Gym shoes. If we are grappling that night shorts, T-Shirt, wrestling shoes... No Uniforms for us. You will not have a uniform on the street, we try to wear what we would be wearing every day. We have wrestled in Jeans just to experience it, however, was rubbed raw in the groin area, we will never do that again.

Give me a fish and I eat for today....Show me how to make "Sweet and Sour" Fish so that I can open a Chinese Restaurant...
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method man



United Kingdom
283 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2006 :  10:21:58  Show Profile Send method man a Private Message  Reply with Quote
LOl I once went on a sponsored run in jeans,welligton boots and a big wool jumper in the middle of summer twelve and a half miles to say I was in agony at the finish line and especially the day after would be an understament. Kew tell me about your use of elbows, shoulders and knees.
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Kew-Do



USA
920 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2006 :  10:35:51  Show Profile  Visit Kew-Do's Homepage Send Kew-Do a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What? that's just insanity! I knew you were a little OFF ( Mentally) but I didn't know you were into S&M!!!!


Well it sounds like our concepts are very similar. In Advanced Double Arm Chi-Sao, we use 1.) Kwai-Jaun( Over top elbow in Biu-Jee, 2.) Ding Jaun (Butting or splitting elbow seen in Siu-Nim Tao and Chum Kiu and 3.) Pai Jaun (Hacking Elbow)side in Elbow. These are great when the opponent attemps to trap or has trapped your center or when Chi-Sao gets heated and your opponent attempt to close the Gap or attempts Biu Ma, or against punchers close range. On the ground Mounting or in the Guard we use Techniques #1 and 3 in close range by placing our palm on the opponents face, push slightly away and when the opponent pushes away or pushes your hand away from their face we let the elbow fly. 2 months ago we were practicing this concept (Light contact) My student was practicing the technique, I was in his guard. As he let the elbow go, it caught me pretty good on the R. Side of the eye socket, causing a nice goose Egg on my eye and giving me a black eye the next day, (This was of course an accident) however made a believer out of my student Mike.

Kew-Do

Give me a fish and I eat for today....Show me how to make "Sweet and Sour" Fish so that I can open a Chinese Restaurant...
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Kew-Do



USA
920 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2006 :  15:21:29  Show Profile  Visit Kew-Do's Homepage Send Kew-Do a Private Message  Reply with Quote
We additionally Use Shoulder butting in close as well as the normal application of knees(Tai-Sut-Gyeuk)on stand up and when we mount on the ground...usual application nothing fancy or out of the ordinary, probably same stuff you use. We do integrate knees with Chi-Sao and Lop-Sao drills. I have 10 variations of the Lop-Sao Drill! Not just the static Lop-Sao. You or I can throw any variation and you or I don't know which one that will be thrown you just react with "Jeet Sao" theory. Very similar to the Pak-Sao drill. It has it's roots in "Pao Fa Lien" Wing Chun. The late Mok-Poi-On taught this drill to one of my past sifu, Dr.David M. Grago.

Kew-Do

Give me a fish and I eat for today....Show me how to make "Sweet and Sour" Fish so that I can open a Chinese Restaurant...
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method man



United Kingdom
283 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2006 :  05:04:57  Show Profile Send method man a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lol yeah I kind of like getting hit by top people just so I can feel there power and technique. Like crap that hurt sifu, do it again I missed how it was done first time . You system sounds cooler the more I read about it, I am trying to intergrate my Wing Chun with MMA especially the ground fighting. I remember durring one MMA class I was on the ground bag hitting it with short and long range elbows puting in loads of ging and the instructor was like damn you love elbows dont you, I feel sorry for the bag or your next opponent. Kew do you ever move between drills from Lop-sau to dan chi then in to normal chi sao that can be quite fun.
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Kew-Do



USA
920 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2006 :  08:16:40  Show Profile  Visit Kew-Do's Homepage Send Kew-Do a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Question form Method Man..

"Kew do you ever move between drills from Lop-sau to dan chi then in to normal chi sao that can be quite fun."

No and Yes.... we do a drill that moves from Lop Sao to Seung Chi-Sao (Double Arm Chi-Sao) and then back to Lop-Sao. It's a static drill, performed in 4/4 Time, and is more for Intermediate students. We do have 4 variations of Don Chi-Sao which is very cool. We also do a Cross Arm Chi-Sao which is not seen in a lot of Wing Chun Systems.

Kew-Do

Give me a fish and I eat for today....Show me how to make "Sweet and Sour" Fish so that I can open a Chinese Restaurant...
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method man



United Kingdom
283 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2006 :  05:38:14  Show Profile Send method man a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have done some cross arm pushing hands in Tai chi is that similar. I have never practiced crossing arms in chi sao as a starting position but for sneaking a bong across to hold the other hand while punching or cross the opponents hands over in a hand trap or tok sao a strike/break in chi sao while steping outside gate and hiting across the body to opponents face with palm etc.
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Kew-Do



USA
920 Posts

Posted - 10/07/2006 :  20:42:16  Show Profile  Visit Kew-Do's Homepage Send Kew-Do a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No it's not like the push hands of Tai Chi. It actually is a roll so the practitioner can divert forward enrgy to the outside and strengthen the Bong sao, Pak Sao, Jut Sao, Lop Sao, etc... Many of the Chum Kiu principles can be practiced in this exercise. This is normally taught to the student before double arm ( Seung Chi, Poon Sao, Biu-Ma, Lok Sao etc...
At this stage we additionally finish the kicking drills:

1.) Jing Gyeuk (Pronounced "Jang Gerk" in Cantonese)
2.) Waung Gyeuk
3.) Loi Tui Gyeuk
4.) Gnoi Tui Gyeuk
5.) Gnoi Tai Sut Gyeuk
6.) Loi Doy Dak Gyeuk
7.) Gnoi Doy Dak Gyeuk
8.) Biu Gyeuk
9.) Moy Ying Gyeuk
10.) Dai Gyeuk
***Chi Gyeuk ( Qi-Gerk ) All sensitivity/sticking drills are very demanding physically and will make your close range kicks very powerful if practiced over a 2 to 3 year period of time. I have a student that can kick a 200 lbs. Man holding a "Banana air shield" off his feet with no step and being 3 feet away! Very powerful and impressive at that range. Can knock the air out of you...

Kew-Do

Give me a fish and I eat for today....Show me how to make "Sweet and Sour" Fish so that I can open a Chinese Restaurant...
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method man



United Kingdom
283 Posts

Posted - 10/09/2006 :  04:09:28  Show Profile Send method man a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very cool Kew-do do you practice the Mo Ying Gerk in front of a mirror it really helps to minimise unwanted body movement. Do you by chance teach the Dummy kick at this stage or wait till Mook Joong practice. Do you introduce the Dummy early on some time between first and second form or teach all principles after Bui Jee.
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Kew-Do



USA
920 Posts

Posted - 10/09/2006 :  06:32:27  Show Profile  Visit Kew-Do's Homepage Send Kew-Do a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I know some schools teach basic principles or drills on the dummy before Biu Jee. We prefer to wait until the student has the hand drills and Biu jee before we teach Moy Yan Jong, (Dummy) Yes we use alot of mirror as a tool for all forms and single drills.

Kew-Do

Give me a fish and I eat for today....Show me how to make "Sweet and Sour" Fish so that I can open a Chinese Restaurant...
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