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 The Element Hands of White Crane
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shihfu



Australia
90 Posts

Posted - 05/30/2006 :  20:42:50  Show Profile  Visit shihfu's Homepage Send shihfu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Garry's right. Most of the "Pressure Point Experts" out there use a handful of knockout points. Real Dim-Mak is a much deeper science.

I'm a person, a seeker, not a "martial artist"
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dragonclaw



USA
735 Posts

Posted - 05/30/2006 :  23:59:48  Show Profile Send dragonclaw a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by shihfu

Of course one can learn Dim Mak without the forms. But the forms map out the applications, energies and striking methods.

Garry, I have not seen this book but I believe that my USA students are sending me a copy very soon. Is it a good book?

Dragonclaw,

The actual forms for Dim-Mak are the forms of one's style, one just needs to approach them from a Dim-Mak point of view and application.


I'm a person, a seeker, not a "martial artist"



what forms map out the energies and such if the forms of one's style are the forms? I'm a little confused here.

The noise of the lover is only up to
the time when he has not seen his Beloved.
Once he sees the Beloved, he becomes calm and quiet,
just as the rivers are boisterous before they join the ocean,
but when they do so, there are becalmed forever.
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3 Circle Method



Australia
1539 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2006 :  00:02:27  Show Profile  Visit 3 Circle Method's Homepage  Click to see 3 Circle Method's MSN Messenger address Send 3 Circle Method a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi DC

Some of your forms may use different type of GINGS / Energies these types of gings are used for different areas to effect the opponents energies or organs.

Like mor kuil has a different energy to soy kuil right? ;)

Garry
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dragonclaw



USA
735 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2006 :  11:44:14  Show Profile Send dragonclaw a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I understand that, but he said, "Of course one can learn Dim Mak without the forms. But the forms map out the applications, energies and striking methods.", implying that there are seperate Dim Mak forms. Then he said, "The actual forms for Dim-Mak are the forms of one's style, one just needs to approach them from a Dim-Mak point of view and application.", so i'm trying to get clarity on if there are Dim Mak forms or not? I've never heard of any legitamite forms, but his earlier statements led one to belive that there is such a thing.




The noise of the lover is only up to
the time when he has not seen his Beloved.
Once he sees the Beloved, he becomes calm and quiet,
just as the rivers are boisterous before they join the ocean,
but when they do so, there are becalmed forever.
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3 Circle Method



Australia
1539 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2006 :  16:10:50  Show Profile  Visit 3 Circle Method's Homepage  Click to see 3 Circle Method's MSN Messenger address Send 3 Circle Method a Private Message  Reply with Quote
DC,

Anything can be dim mak, even combing your hair!

The forms of your art if you are told its contains dim mak then you should explore that side of the art and not just learn the form for just systems sake. I have broken all my forms down using the theories for dim mak, applying in real time is the issue.

Garry
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shihfu



Australia
90 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2006 :  21:08:21  Show Profile  Visit shihfu's Homepage Send shihfu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dragonclaw,

Any of the forms contain Dim-Mak or can be approachged from a Dim-Mak perspective. If one approaches the forms with Dim-Mak in mind.

I'm a person, a seeker, not a "martial artist"
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dragonclaw



USA
735 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2006 :  21:17:31  Show Profile Send dragonclaw a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok, neither of you have answered my question......forget it! If you two would stop trying to convince me for a min and just read my damn question perhaps I'd get an answer. I didn't ask if the kung fu has Dim Mak in it, I think I already stated early on in this thread that I was learning that perspective from my sifu. So i'm not asking anymore, if you really wanna answer me go back an re read my posts.

The noise of the lover is only up to
the time when he has not seen his Beloved.
Once he sees the Beloved, he becomes calm and quiet,
just as the rivers are boisterous before they join the ocean,
but when they do so, there are becalmed forever.

Edited by - dragonclaw on 05/31/2006 21:20:50
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3 Circle Method



Australia
1539 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2006 :  22:19:30  Show Profile  Visit 3 Circle Method's Homepage  Click to see 3 Circle Method's MSN Messenger address Send 3 Circle Method a Private Message  Reply with Quote
DUDE, explain then in english what you you mean cause if both of us are not understanding and want to help answer or give u an answer why not help US HELP YOU?!

OR you dont understand our responces?

Garry
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Alerten22



USA
104 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2006 :  22:48:10  Show Profile  Send Alerten22 a Yahoo! Message Send Alerten22 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If they can't seem to explain it in a more broken down way... (explainitory in other words, then he doesn't know how to explain it, but might know or understand the theories behind this) Then we are left with the only clue that the person explaining this doesn't actually know how to apply them (not in theory or reading it or listening to your teacher say how to do it, but actually have experience in producing Dim-Mak)

In Xing Yi,(Chen Pan Ling lineage which is the only orthedox Xing Yi) from what the teacher has told us, this is the general understanding of uses of Elements. In exercises you continue to practice what what element can distroy other element. For example, Water douses Fire, you learn in different ways (i'm not sure haven't done much in it yet to know) although i do know you learn two person sets. This system must be a orthedox Taoist Chinese Martial Art. These understandings of the martial art don't solely come from just this martial art but many foundations of martial arts.

My understanding that the practice of Dim-Mak is not often taught or practiced other then when in forms hitting at air. This is because any one actual attack done properly to a person would be devistating.

In my Xing Yi class, your not allowed to actually use a refined attack in the proper way we are taught away from people because if done properly would totally defeat your enemy or opponent. We don't want to hosiptalize people in our kung fu school but even if the practioner doesn't have the technique down well enough still will injure the opponent pertty well. (that is depending on the pracitioners skill in the technique) It is believed in Xing Yi, that only one technique is all is needed to take out the practitioner. We end up doing everything we know in the class over and over and over again. This is a very serious art and there is no sparring using these techniques alone. Because, the Element Hands of White Crane is based on the same thing as long as it holds to the orthedox teachings of elements then most likely there is a limited amount the teacher knows, and thus can allow fighting with these techniques or it is just to dangorous.

Please correct me if i miss spoke anything... i'm no expert... and i'm comparing what was discribed as "Taoist Elements" exactly as they are discribed in Xing Yi. So there might be suble differences through the years of The Element hands of White Crane, or maybe incorperates more stuff that negates what i've said here.

The Rigid person is a disciple of death; The soft, supple, and delicate are lovers of life. -Lao Tzu
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Alerten22



USA
104 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2006 :  22:51:35  Show Profile  Send Alerten22 a Yahoo! Message Send Alerten22 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I forgot to add that Chen Pan Ling lineage of Xing Yi also focuses very strongly on speciffic places to strike or hit, where these stop supposidly energies although i haven't been formally taught this (i shouldn't be talking about this as if i know how to perform, or understand the theory)

The Rigid person is a disciple of death; The soft, supple, and delicate are lovers of life. -Lao Tzu
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dragonclaw



USA
735 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2006 :  23:01:34  Show Profile Send dragonclaw a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 3 Circle Method

DUDE, explain then in english what you you mean cause if both of us are not understanding and want to help answer or give u an answer why not help US HELP YOU?!

OR you dont understand our responces?

Garry



Actually Garry, only Shifu can answer my question as it pertained specifically to what he stated in regards to HIS training. Now do you understand?

The noise of the lover is only up to
the time when he has not seen his Beloved.
Once he sees the Beloved, he becomes calm and quiet,
just as the rivers are boisterous before they join the ocean,
but when they do so, there are becalmed forever.
Go to Top of Page

Alerten22



USA
104 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2006 :  23:03:58  Show Profile  Send Alerten22 a Yahoo! Message Send Alerten22 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I understood this, i didn't mean to try and asnwer you questions about the other stuff..., unless your talking to 3 Circle Method

The Rigid person is a disciple of death; The soft, supple, and delicate are lovers of life. -Lao Tzu
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3 Circle Method



Australia
1539 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2006 :  01:32:48  Show Profile  Visit 3 Circle Method's Homepage  Click to see 3 Circle Method's MSN Messenger address Send 3 Circle Method a Private Message  Reply with Quote
LOL Okay big fella! I dont understand though, can you explain?

Alerten

The whole crap about the techniques are too deadly to spar is what makes me ill and what degrades kung fu systems. You can still spar lightly or with gloves on, better yet go visit DC in the park they mix it up with bridge hands. hahaha just having a cheap shot 6'3 Neanderthal man ok?! ;)

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Alerten22



USA
104 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2006 :  08:30:04  Show Profile  Send Alerten22 a Yahoo! Message Send Alerten22 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, this is what our teacher teaches. If you lightly spar you don't have any intent behind your hits, or Yi in your strikes and in Xing Yi, you practice your Yi, you practice as you are trying to stop the fight in one hit. Thus you can work up to it. This Xing Yi, is kind of like a religious art (so to speak) but there are reasons behind it... that i hope to learn... I'm just relaying the things my teacher says.

I understand this sounds kind of far out there to believe. I don't know enough about it to talk about it. Thats why i said please correct me and i shouldn't have even wrote what i did because i don't understand some of these things my teacher has been teaching the rest of the class. (i just started the class, everyone has been there since they started up Xing Yi class which was around 4 months ago) My teacher says never to explain anything about another art till you've at least gotten to instructor level because then is the only actual time you know stuff... (although i'm no instructor in any art, i really shouldn't be talking about anything, but i'm on this forum to learn more or correct what i already know)

The Rigid person is a disciple of death; The soft, supple, and delicate are lovers of life. -Lao Tzu
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dragonclaw



USA
735 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2006 :  10:06:39  Show Profile Send dragonclaw a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 3 Circle Method

LOL Okay big fella! I dont understand though, can you explain?

Alerten

The whole crap about the techniques are too deadly to spar is what makes me ill and what degrades kung fu systems. You can still spar lightly or with gloves on, better yet go visit DC in the park they mix it up with bridge hands. hahaha just having a cheap shot 6'3 Neanderthal man ok?! ;)





Haha! Of course! I wouldn't expect anything less from you my Aussie brother from another mother!

The noise of the lover is only up to
the time when he has not seen his Beloved.
Once he sees the Beloved, he becomes calm and quiet,
just as the rivers are boisterous before they join the ocean,
but when they do so, there are becalmed forever.
Go to Top of Page
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